Unskewing the Facts and Figures

Here's a prime example of how Harry and company "logically" "prove" their points using "actual data"


One of the "brilliant" (or so she would like to think) and dishonest commenters over at White Women Suck posted this recently in the latest thread over there. Her comment will be in blue and my response in red. She compares movies in pairs, some how trying to prove through it what white women prefer to watch.


But her comparisons are skewed and random so they are hardly valid.

Ashe Said:

According to Box Office Mojo"



Anon, thank you for that eloquent comment and for providing that site. I'm not sure who the anon is that she is addressing, I don't read everything over there these days (too much of the same old crazy crap); I just happened to notice this gem from Ashe when it was at the bottom of the comment section so it popped right out at me. But if I get time (and the motivation), I will go and look and see what idiocy this anon posted as well.



Here's a few of the million examples I could think of as well. I only listed domestic gross income, because it is white American women in question.

Monster's ball: $31,273,922 (which Halle won an oscar for)

Save the last dance: $91, 057, 006 (unattractive blond actress dates a black guy)

My first observation is that this is such a random comparison. To accurately compare movies they need to be at least vaguely similar in terms of genre, target age group, etc. So let's look at those details for a moment


Monster's Ball
Release: March 2002

In release: 23.3 weeks

Widest Release: 714 theaters (opening weekend in 660 theaters)

Genre: Drama
Running Time: 1 hrs. 51 min.
MPAA Rating: R (only adults can attend)
Production Budget: $4 million (by the way if the production budget was 4 million that means it wasn't a flop.)


Save the Last Dance

Release : January 2001

In release: 24 weeks
Widest Release: 2,570 theaters (opening weekend 2,200 + theaters - wider release means more people have easy access to it more tickets likely to be sold)

Genre: Music Drama (Not anywhere near as "heavy as Monster's ball and "Dance Movie"
Running Time: 1 hrs. 53 min.
MPAA Rating: PG-13 (In other words teenagers over thirteen can go alone and younger children can go with their parents - much bigger potential audience)
Production Budget: N/A



My second observation is that maybe (probably) women didn't rush out to see this one because it starred Billy Bob Thornton in the leading male role, and I don't know of many women (aside from Angelina Jolie who was going through a strange and dark phase when she did) who fancy him. I have a feeling that it wasn't so much about seeing Halle as leading woman / love interest turning people off, as it was the notion of Billy Bob as a leading man / love interest. For those of you unfamiliar with Billy Bob's stellar looks, here's a shot from the film:


I don't know, but last time I checked most women in general don't go for the trailer park lord look. He looks like a Billy Bob.



I also have to say that the Oscars, no matter what the color of the stars in the movies that win them, isn't always an accurate indicator of how well a film is going to do. I saw Monsters Ball, it was depressing as hell from the get go and hard to watch - not at all the kind of movie I enjoy watching.


I saw Save the Last Dance (on video) too. While the acting in Monster's Ball was admittedly much better, this movie was just way, way less depressing. Plus, like many people, I like to watch things involving dance. I don't think Julia Stiles is beautiful, and watching it had nothing to do with that. As it featured young people (teenagers) and it was rated PG-13, it also appealed to a bigger audience and to the particular group that frequents movies quite a bit - teenagers.



And lastly and most importantly, why the hell is this movie's not raking in 100s of millions the fault of white women any more than it is the fault of any other group - especially the other majority group - WHITE MEN? This movie never claimed to be a chick flick, Billy Bob is just as much the star as Berry is, if not more. So why are women to blame for the box office results? I think we all know the answer, they aren't, they are just scape goats.


The Joy Luck Club: $32,901,136 (all asian women)

The First Wives Club: $105,489,203 (all white women)


Aside from the fact that they start with the word "the" and end with the word "club" these two movies have absolutely nothing in common. There is no way that anyone could expect them to draw the same audience numbers.

First let's adjust the ticket prices so they are the same year: In 1993 the average ticket price was $4.14 and in 1996 it was $ 4.42. So in 1996, the amount that the Joy Luck Club would have made was about 35 million, not that much more, but still they should have argued with accurate numbers.

Now let's look at the movies.

• Joy Luck Club: Drama starring unknown actors / actresses.
  
  
• First Wives Club: Comedy starring a triumverate of some of Hollywood's most powerful and well known actresses.
  

In other words, FWC is more likely to appeal to a larger crowd - everyone knows that comedies have a greater appeal than dramas. I am sure if you asked a man to choose one to watch with his wife, the average American "Joe" would pick FWC. That's a no brainer.

• Joy Luck Club: Rated R
  
• First Wives Club: Rated PG
  

In other words, FWC has a bigger potential audience.

• Joy Luck Club: Running Time 2 hrs. 19 min.
  
• First Wives Club: Running Time 1 hrs. 42 min
  
  

I don't think I have to even explain this one.

• Joy Luck Club: Widest Release 600 theatres
• First Wives Club: Widest Release 2,406 theaters
  
  

So the FWC was shown in more than 4 x the number of theaters than the JLC was - I am sure this had some affect on the box office results.

Legend of Chun Li: $8,702,482

Elektra: $24,409,722

I don't even know if I should bother with pointing out Ashe's stupidity in posting this one, but I will anyway. The Legend of Chun Li is still in theaters, so I don't know how the hell she can compare Box Office results. Also, the Legend of Chun Li has a teenage boy / white male audience target audience. Elektra does too, so what is she proving? That more white men prefer to watch white women in action flicks? Thanks for pointing out what we already know, Ashe, and proving my point. Also, best of all, they devoted a whole thread to bitching about how the Legend of Chun Li's Kristin Kreuk is virtually a white woman, since she is half white and therefore that was proof of white women's evil grip on Hollywood. Now they want to turn around and claim that the reason the movie's low box office numbers are a reflection of a fact that white women don't want to watch it because it stars a WoC? Can anyone tell me the "logic" of this? Because it escapes me.

In relation to the earlier claims they made abotu Kristin. I would like to point out here on a side note that it is funny how they negate (when convenient for them) the ethnicity of someone like Kristin Kreuk, because she is half fair skinned minority.

Elektra also showed in three times as many theaters. In the opening weekend, Chun Li earned a bit more per theater than Elektra did. Elektra was also a spin off of the Daredevil movie so it had a history.

Something New: $11,468,568

Single White Female: $48,017,402

First, I have to say, until I looked it up, I didn't even have a clue when Something New showed in the theaters because I had never heard of it until I read the rantings of Harry and company. It certainly didn't get a lot of hype where I am living. For those who don't know, hype = increased ticket sales. That aside....

• Single White Female: Genre: Thriller Starring Bridget Fonda and Jennifer Jason Leigh in their Hay days.
  
• Somthing New: Genre: Romantic Comedy Starring unknowns.

You can't compare a thriller starring the offspring of Hollywood Legends to a Romantic Comedy starring unkown actors that got so little marketing most people didn't even hear of it.

This one is just SAD.The Color Purple, one of the best movies of all time: $94,175,854

Sweet Home Alabama: $127,223,418 (WHY?)

This has GOT to be one of her most random and dishonest comparisons.

Why dishonest?

The Color Purple Release Date: December 20, 1985 - average ticket price in 1985 was $3.55. Sweet Home Alabama Release Date: September 27, 2002. - average ticket price in 2002 was $5.81. That means that the Color Purple at 2002 ticket prices would have made MORE THAN 154 Million, in spite of the fact that it was a period Drama - probably the least popular genre with men if it doesn't involve war or gladitorial combat - and Sweet Home Alabama was a Romantic Comedy; a genre, which as I have pointed out above, is more likely to get some men in the audience too.

Why random?

Why pick two completely unrelated movies of different genres shown 17 years apart to compare? The answer is simple. Because, Harry and crowd are so desperate to paint white women as a crowd as monstrous selfish creatures that they will use anything to try to do it.

Now lets compare it to ACTION movies and MOC.

The forbidden Kingdom: $52,075,270 (Jackie Chan and Jet Li)

The Transporter: $25,296,447 (white guy)

I am legend: $256,393,010

Quantum of Solace: $168,368,427

Beverly Hills Cop: $234,760,478

Top Gun: $176,786,701

There are so many movies starring white men; of course you can find ones that haven't done so well as a the few starring black men. So what is she proving? Nothing, because, you can also find a movie starring white men that have done much better than ones starring men of color. In fact if I were to argue true to Ashe form, then I could rightly ask why did "Dumb and Dumber" ($127,175,374) earn more money than "Malcom X" ($48,169,910)? Almost 3 times more in fact? Is it because white men refuse to see a movie starring a black man? Or a movie about a black man, whose memory many in the black community honor?

There are MANY MANY examples of MOC grossing more profit in action movies. It's almost as though MOC are MORE LIKELY to gross huge action-movie profits then white men.

Huh? Say what again?

It's almost as if ASHE is SMOKING CRACK while she writes these things.

I don't think it's because wm are dying to see MOC, but more that the race of the stars chosen has no baring on whether or not they see it. Special effects and fighting sequences seem much more relevant to the guys :-P.

Really Ashe? Is that true? Then why did Ali only make $58,203,105? - less than half of what Dumb and Dumber made. And why did Rocky, a movie about a fictional white boxer, make $117,235,147 (IN 1976!!) almost exactly twice the amount Ali (true story of a legendary black boxing champion) made without even adjusting the numbers for inflation. (Adjusted for Inflation Rocky made more than $306 Million). In fact all of the Rocky Movies made more than Ali did except for Rocky V which when adjusted for inflation made only a about 3 million less.

But white women would much rather see a bad movie with Reese Witherspoon than an oscar winning, compelling story with breathtaking cinematography--simply because a WOC is in it.

I just proved above that this is not actually true. In fact Memoirs of a Geisha made almost as much as Ali and Malcom X did (when adjusted for inflation). But the black community is much bigger than the Asian American Community so you can also assume that they made up a bigger portion of the ticket sales for Ali and Malcom X and also Ali starred a big name star whereas Memoirs of a Geisha did not really have any big name stars aside from Michelle Yeoh, who is hardly as well known as Will Smith.

Romance/dramas are likely to TANK if a white woman is not on the cover. White women absolutely refuse to see non-ww as love interests MOST of the time, and are too racist to relate or stand for a non-ww in the lead. This fact is too concrete to be up for debate.

The Color Purple didn't exactly "tank" did it? And I have debated quite nicely here, so nothing she is saying is too concrete as she claims. Maid In Manhattan didn't "tank" either. In fact Maid in Manhattan (Romantic Comedy Starring Jennifer Lopez) made about as much money as Legally Blonde (Romantic Comedy Starring Reese Witherspoon) did. Hitch (a Romantic Comedy with Eva Mendes in the female Lead) was quite popular ($179,495,555) and let's not forget The Bodyguard shall we? Back in 1992, a romance starring a Black Woman (Whitney Houston) and a White Man (Kevin Costner) made ($121,945,720).

In addition, there's Lethal Weapon,

(Where Danny Glover gets to provide comic relief at his own expense??)

Money Train, Trading Places, Independence Day, Pulp Fiction, Shanghai Noon, Remember the Titans, White Men Can't Jump, and several other HUGE box office hit films featuring white men as partners/equals to MOC.

How many co-star films have we seen with WOC and ww? No, I don't mean a morbidly obese black female to highlight the desirability of the white women in the lead. I mean one where share they *gasp* share the spotlight, as partners or as equals. Not many. I really can't think of one.

Really? Because I can. The Charlies Angels Movies Pop to mind. How to Make an American Quilt. No, there don't seem to be as many as there are with white men and men of color, together, but then again, the "buddy genre" was a kind of movie created to exclude women and target men. Also, I can think of more than a couple movies where the woman of color is made to look BETTER than white women and has a bigger role. Sure it's not enough, but the actual box office numbers as I pointed out above don't indicate that white women hate seeing WoC in leading roles. In fact the below shows that, when a woman of color appears in a good movie, white women don't seem to mind seeing them. I would like to add here that they are now obsessing about the movie Obsessed and arranging it so that if it does badly they can accuse whitte women of making it fail and if it does well they can accuse white women of making it do well because they like to a white woman stealing a black woman's man. What a load of crazy shit.




More Accurate Comparisons:


Group 1 (Comedy)

• Sister Act: Domestic Total Gross: $139,605,150 (in 1992) (Comedy Starring a black woman)


• First Wives Club: Domestic Total Gross: $105,489,203 (in 1996) (Comedy Starring three big white female stars)


• Private Benjamin: Domestic Total Gross: $69,847,348 (in 1980 -if adjusted, this is still a lot less than Sister Act) (Comedy Starring Goldie Hawn)
  

Group 2 Action / Adventure (with Female Star)

• Elektra: Domestic Total Gross: $24,409,722 (in 2005) (Action / Adventure Starring Jennifer Garner)


• Catwoman: Domestic Total Gross: $40,202,379 (in 2004) (Action / Adventure Starring Halle Berry)

Group 3: Drama / Comedy Drama

• Waiting to Exhale: Domestic Total Gross: $67,052,156 (in 1995) (Comedy /Drama starring Whitney Houston and Angela Basset) Rated R


• Thelma and Louise: Domestic Total Gross: $45,360,915 (in 1991) (Crime Drama Starring Susan Sarandon, Gina Davis and a young Brad Pitt) Rated R

Group 4 Sci Fi Action / Thriller / Horror

• Terminator 2 Judgement Day: Domestic Total Gross: $204,843,345 (in 1992) (Sci-fi action starring white man with limited speaking and acting capabilities) (amount adjusted to 2007 ticket prices = almost $340 Million) Rated R (for those who don't know R = Restricted as in restricted audience)


• I am Legend: Domestic Total Gross: $256,393,010 (in 2007) (Sci-Fi horror starring acclaimed Black Male Actor) Rated PG -13
  
  

Group 5 Comedy

• Bringing Down the House: Domestic Total Gross: $132,716,677 (In 2003) (Comedy Starring Steve Martin and Queen Latifah)


• Fun with Dick and Jane: Domestic Total Gross: $110,332,737 (in 2005) (Comedy Starring Jim Carrey and Tea Leoni)


• The House Bunny: Domestic Total Gross: $48,237,389 (in 2008)(Comedy Starring Anna Faris and Colin Hanks)


• Bride Wars: Domestic Total as of Apr. 23, 2009: $58,690,669 (Comedy Starring Anne Hathaway and Kate Hudson)


• Romy and Michelle's Highschool Reunion: Domestic Total Gross:$29,235,353 (in 1997)(Comedy starring Mira Sorvino and Lisa Kudrow)


• Monster-in-Law:Domestic Total Gross: $82,931,301 (in 2005) (Comedy Starring Jennifer Lopez and Jane Fonda)

Group 6 Romantic Comedy

• Hitch: Domestic Total Gross: $179,495,555 (in 2005) (Romantic Comedy Starring Will Smith and Eva Mendes)


• Sweet Home Alabama: $127, 223, 418 (in 2002) (Romantic Comedy Starring Reese Witherspoon and Josh Lucas)


• How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days: Domestic Total Gross: $105,813,373 (in 2003) (Romantic Comedy Starring Matthew McConaughey and Kate Hudson.)


• Maid in Manhattan: Domestic Total Gross: $94,011,225 (in 2002) (Romantic Comedy Starring Jennifer Lopez and Ralph Fiennes)


• America's Sweethearts: Domestic Total Gross: $93,607,673 (in 2001) (Romantic Comedy Starring Julia Roberts, Catherine Zeta Jones, John Cusack, Billy Crystal, Hank Azaria)

Group 7 Period Drama / Drama / Romance

• The Color Purple: Domestic Total Gross: $94,175,854 (Date of Release: December 20, 1985) (Period Drama Starring Oprah Winfrey, Whoopi Goldberg, Danny Glover)


• Out of Africa: Domestic Total Gross: $87,071,205 (Date of Release: December 20, 1985) (stars Robert Redford and Meryl Streep and was released on the same day as The Color Purple.


• Vanity Fair: Domestic Total Gross: $16,136,476 (in 2004) (Period Drama Starring Reese Witherspoon)


• Memoirs of a Geisha :Domestic Total Gross: $57,490,508 (in 2005) (Period Drama Starring all Asian cast including Michelle Yeoh and Zhang Ziyi)


• Dangerous Liasons:Domestic Total Gross: $34,670,720 (in 1988) (Period Drama Starring Glenn Close John Malkovich, Michelle Pfeiffer, Keanu Reeves, Uma Thurman - veritable line up of Hollywood's big name actors / actresses) average ticket price only increased by 3 cents between 1988 and 1993 so I didn't bother to adjust this.


• Marie Antoinette: Domestic Total Gross: $15,962,471 (in 2005) (Period Drama Starring Kirsten Dunst)


• Joy Luck Club: Domestic Total Gross: $32,901,136 (1993) (Drama starring unkown Asian cast)


• What's Love Got to Do With It? Domestic Total Gross: $39,100,956 (1993) (Drama Starring Angela Bassett and Luarence Fishburne


• The Bodyguard: Domestic Total Gross: $121,945, 720 (in 1992) (Romance Starring Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston)

Group 8 - Sports Drama

• Rocky: Domestic Total Gross: $117,235,147 (in 1976) (Sports Drama Starring Sylvester Stallone)


• Ali: Domestic Total Gross: $58,203,105 (in 2001) (Sports Drama Starring Will Smith)
  

Group 9 - Drama

• The Last King of Scotland: Domestic Total Gross: $17,606,684 (Forest Whitaker won an Oscar for his role in this)


• Capote: Domestic Total Gross: $28,750,530 (Phillip Seymour Hoffman won an Oscar for his role)

Group 10 - War / Action set in Asia

• The Forbidden Kingdom: Domestic Total Gross: $52,075,270


• The Last Samurai: Domestic Total Gross: $111,127,263

Group 11 - Sci Fi

• Star Wars: Domestic Total Gross: $307,263,857 (in 1977)


• Empire Strikes Back: Domestic Total Gross: $209,398,025 (in 1980)


• Return of the Jedi: Domestic Total Gross: $252,583,617 (in 1983)


• Independence Day: Domestic Total Gross: $306,169,268 (in 1996) (the average ticket price in 1996 was twice what it was in 1977)
  

Now a look at the Box Office Top 10 for 3 consecutive Years - notice a pattern? Family Movies and Blockbusters Starring white men 99% of the time are ALWAYS the biggest earners. And they say women hold all the power in Hollywood?

• Year 2000 Box office top 10
  1 How the Grinch Stole Christmas $260,044,825 (Children's / Family Film)
  2 Cast Away $233,632,142 (Adventure / Drama - white male hero)
  3 Mission: Impossible II $215,409,889 (aciton / adventure - White male Hero)
  4 Gladiator $187,705,427 (Period drama / war / action - epic with broad appeal - white male hero)
  5 What Women Want $182,811,707 (Romantic Comedy starring one of Holly wood's most lusted after white male actors)
  6 The Perfect Storm $182,618,434 (Action / Adventure - big budget film)
  7 Meet the Parents $166,244,045 (Comedy - white male stars)
  8 X-Men $157,299,717 (superhero movie - broad appeal - mixed cast including black female)
  9 Scary Movie $157,019,771 ( Mock Horror - mixed cast - broad appeal)
  10 What Lies Beneath $155,464,351 (Thriller starring one of Hollywood's white male legends)
  


• Year 2001 Box Office Top 10
  1Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone $317,575,550 (Family movie - appeal to all age groups and both sexes - white male hero
  2 The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring $313,364,114 (Fantasy / Action / Adventure appeal to both sexes and variety of age groups)
  3 Shrek $267,665,011 (Animated Movie with appeal for both adults and children)
  4 Monsters, Inc. $255,873,250 (animated - family Movie)
  5 Rush Hour 2 $226,164,286 (Buddy film / comedy - broad appeal - Black man & Asian Man)
  6 The Mummy Returns $202,019,785
  7 Pearl Harbor $198,542,554 (War /Period Drama/ Action / Romance appeal to men and women - White Men and Women)
  8 Ocean's Eleven $183,417,150 (Movie starring a number of Hollywood's leading (white)men)
  9 Jurassic Park III $181,171,875 (Block buster with big appeal to broad audience due to special effects. White Males and 1 white female)
  10 Planet of the Apes $180,011,740 (Sci Fi / action / adventure - Appeal to men. White male star)

• Year 2002 Top 10

1 Spider-Man $403,706,374 (Super Hero Movie - Appeals to Men, Women and Children / White Male Hero)

2 The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers $339,789,881 (Fantasy / Action / Adventure with appeal to Men, Women, Children / White Male Heros)
3 Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones $302,191,252 (Sci Fi Fantasy / Adventure with appeal to mainly Men but also Women and Children - White Male Hero)
4 Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets $261,988,482 (Fantasy with appeal to Children women and men) White male (child) hero
5 My Big Fat Greek Wedding $241,438,208 (Romantic Comedy- ethnic) Greek Female
6 Signs $227,966,634
7 Austin Powers in Goldmember $213,307,889 (Comedy - appeal to adults of both sexes especially men - White Male Hero)
8 Men in Black II $190,418,803 (Sci Fi Action / Comedy Buddy Film - appeal to men and women and children - White male and black male heros)
9 Ice Age $176,387,405 (Children's / Family Movie - Animated)
10 Chicago $170,687,518 (Musical - widespread appeal - White Female Stars Black Female supporting actress)